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Akeeba Backup for Joomla!

#37489 Ergonomics on akeeba

Posted in ‘Akeeba Backup for Joomla! 4 & 5’
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Environment Information

Joomla! version
4.1.5
PHP version
7.4
Akeeba Backup version
9.2.4

Latest post by nicholas on Wednesday, 20 July 2022 04:16 CDT

HDcms

Hello
I take the liberty of making these suggestions in the hope that it will not upset you or your entourage ;-) ?
I have long left the default settings and used the wizard; Now with more automation of backup on shared servers, I had to look at optimization, especially since I realized that we could do better than the wizard :-)

I spent many hours testing with a real difficulty of understanding, because it touches areas of security, database where I am not very competent!

I try to explain a bit more by giving some examples, but honestly, my problem was also to be constantly re (recheck) after changing a parameter.

As soon as I select where to modify a "Quota management" parameter ("Enable maximum backup age quotas" ...) or "Post-processing engine" ...
=> this implies that other accessible parameters are not valid anymore

My suggestion is ;
1/ mount the choices, which will impact the most parameters, at the top of the page like the 2 mentioned,
2/ allow only the parameters that are related to previous choices.
3/ Make inactive BUT visible the parameters that are impacted by a parameter change

I hope you can think a little bit about this with other people to improve this setting. I hope that my bad English will not be unfavorable to me

Regards

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager

I understand what you are saying. 

Pinning specific configuration parameters at the top makes far less sense than having them grouped by type. If there are quota settings in two places on the page people will never see the second place. This only makes sense if we're talking about actions, not settings, and the user can customise them e.g. what you can do with Joomla's TinyMCE.

Regarding hiding configuration parameters, it is something I had in my to-do list since late 2018 and ultimately removed it in 2020.

The best example of why I cannot really implement that is how you got confused with quota management and post-processing engine. These options ARE NOT mutually exclusive. You can have a backup uploading to a remote storage and then NOT deleted from your server. Therefore quota management will still apply. If you are uploading it and then removing it from your server then the remote quotas will apply. In this case, if you fetch back the backup to your server then yes of course the regular quota management will still apply as well! The same thing applies if the backup failed to upload to the remote storage, e.g. because of a network error. Since it's stored locally, quota management still applies.

If you think about situations like that you realise that hiding parameters is a fairly complex decision tree which has to be implemented with fairly complex JavaScript code. This creates three problems. One: any added feature / option will require going through the entire decision tree and re-evaluating the JavaScript which will sooner than later become a major hindrance to implementing new features. Two: we now have a major surface area where very hard to troubleshoot bugs can crop up. Three: even if we magically do everything right all the time, people will continuously report options not appearing / disappearing when they think they should as a "bug" even though what they think is based on an incomplete understanding of how things work. So, it's a lot of extra work with zero benefits. Hence this idea was ultimately canceled in 2020.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

HDcms

Hi,

I hear your arguments.
You give 1 obvious argument as a backup to remote storage, then DO NOT delete it from your server. That's exactly what I do, I consider it a nice feature in this case (why delete a backup right away, maybe more reliable?).
It seems to me that there are really fields or values that should not be taken into account like the remote/local backup that are necessarily different! Example among others of the perceived ambiguity (even with the help)
Quota management > "Enable maximum backup age quotas".
It is not possible to have a quota per day in local / "number" if I understand correctly?

You also often rely on bad experiences or people. You know as well as I do that there will always be some, even with the warnings.
You can't always be pulled down by that, in my opinion.

I'm talking about my former experience in creating forms, where I relied on various recommendations from experts in usability, UX ...
* discriminating fields (1 or 2 fields maximum)
* hiding fields according to choices

Of course, this is not always possible. This is the middle way.
But of course, if your customers use the default values and don't want to optimize, there is no other reason to change!

I know from experience (forms) that this is not always possible and that it is always a lot of work.

Regards

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager

Thank you for telling me how to do my job and for telling my about UX. It's not like I have been doing this for 17 years, or being married to a UX designer the last 6 years β€” a woman I met when I contracted her to do a user study on my software which led to several UX improvements. I was waiting for you, Herve, to tell me how to design my software and make the best compromise between usability and capability taking into account my target audience and the market conditions. It's not like I had previously worked as a business consultant for a business consultancy firm in Greece with some of the country's biggest companies as its clients.

When you build mass distributed software like mine please come and talk to me about your experience. Until then I'd appreciate it if you did not tell me how to do my job, especially since from the very first paragraph of your last reply it's absolutely clear that you don't even understand how to damn software works or its most popular use case!

No, Herve, leaving the backup archive on the server is actually NOT what my clients want. They don't want to spend a boatload of money on VERY expensive host storage when they can buy much more resilient storage for their backups are a price of 1 to 2 cents of a US dollar per Gigabyte-month (as opposed to 10 to 1000 cents of US dollar per Gigabyte-month of hosting space). Not only is the remote storage cheaper, it is also far more resilient because it's replicated. It's not as fast as hosting storage but this is irrelevant because you typically have backup tiers. Your latest backups are typically in hot or warm storage, your older backups in cool or cold storage. The cost of retrieving a backup from remote storage is orders of magnitude smaller than the cost of storing your backups in hot storage in your hosting account except for very few and very specific use cases. For these use cases you do, indeed, have the option to disable the deletion of your backup from local storage and/or disable remote quotas if you so want. These options are not linked in any form or manner NOR should they be! What you propose is a disaster and a great way to lose most paying clients. Be grateful you don't run this business, you'd have run it to the ground in a few short weeks.

So, again, don't try to tell me how to do my job. You very clearly don't know how.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

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