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Site Restoration

#34010 Class 'Joomla\Console\Application' not found

Posted in ‘Site restoration’
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Environment Information

PHP version
n/a
CMS Type
Other
CMS Version
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Backup Tool Version
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Kickstart version
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PierreVeelen

Backed up working site. Installed backup on subdomain of other site to start testing.
Kickstart installs site without errors. Front-end appears to be working correct.
Backend shows error (see attached files).

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager

Did you restore a Joomla 3.9 site on top of an older site (my guess is Joomla 3.7 or earlier)? If you did that please note that it won't work per our documentation. Joomla gets in an inconsistent state with regards to its library loading causing the site to fail.

If you are not restoring on top of an existing site I would be really surprised because the referenced file has not existed in Joomla for years. The only way I know of to cause Joomla to try and load a file that hasn't been included in it for years is restoring on top of an old site.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

PierreVeelen

Hi Nicholas, I did not restore the backup over an old site.
I created the site with Joomla 3.9.21 or 3.9.20 (not sure). I made a backup of that new site.

Then made subdomain under a different domain to test the upgrade to joomla 4.
Followed the instructions/steps in https://www.joomla.org/announcements/release-news/5816-joomla-4-0-0-beta3-and-joomla-3-10-alpha1.html
(but with the latest releases).

So I restored the "original" site to the new subdomain. Which worked fine.
Then I upgraded to 3.10 as a prepration for upgrade to 4.(which also gave no errors)

And than the final upgrade to 4 did not work and created that error.
When I then reinstall the initial backup (over the joomla 4 site), the error persists

What i had to do was erase the entire file/folder structure in the subdomain and the tables in the database.
So basically create a clean starting point. Then I could reinstalll the initial backup whithout failure.
But still not able to do the last step to upgrade to joomla 4.

 

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager

So first you're saying

Hi Nicholas, I did not restore the backup over an old site.

And then you are saying

When I then reinstall the initial backup (over the joomla 4 site), the error persists

Maybe I didn't explain this correctly, assuming you had read the documentation already. You did try to restore the backup over a different Joomla version family. As I have explained in the documentation, this won't work:

Do not try to overwrite one Joomla! version family with a different one. Overwriting a major version with another (e.g. restoring a backup taken on Joomla! 3.7 on top of a site running Joomla! 2.5 or vice versa) or between different minor versions (e.g. restoring a backup taken on Joomla! 3.7 on top of a site running Joomla! 3.6 or vice versa) will NOT work. Joomla! moves files around between minor and major versions. Since the backup does not delete files not present in the backup archive this will end up with Joomla! being "confused" and malfunctioning. In these cases you should delete the existing files and folders (except, perhaps, user generated content) before restoring the backup. You can safely restore a sub-minor (path-level) version on top of another. For example, you can safely restore a Joomla! 3.7.5 site on top of a Joomla! 3.7.3 site or vice versa.

Solution: remove all of your problem site's files and folders, then try to restore the backup.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

PierreVeelen

Hi Nicholas, Thank you for pointing that out to me. We indeed had a different understanding of not restoring over an older site.
After creating an complete clean site again and switching off the backup on update feature, I still get the 500 error when doing the last upgrade step (to joomla 4).

So i assume it is a problem in the Joomla 4 update script in stead of the back up.
I will pursue on that path.

Thank you for fast an clear response.

Regards, Pierre

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager

I can only help with backup restoration problems. I cannot really help with upgrading to the Joomla 4 beta versions.

I can, however, tell you from first hand experience that it's a very finicky process. First you need to upgrade from Joomla 3.9 to an alpha version of 3.10 using the Joomla Update component and its upload feature. Anything else won't work. Do note that this requires your PHP setting for the maximum upload and POST size to be over 20MB (make that over 35MB if you plan on updating to Joomla 4).

Then you need to go through all your extensions (components, modules, plugins, templates and libraries) and make sure that they are Joomla 4 compatible. Do not trust what Joomla Update says, it's 90% bullshit. For example, all Akeeba Software released since September 2020 is fully compatible with the Joomla 4 beta 3 and later releases, up to and including beta 5 which is the latest version at the time of this writing. Some of them appear as incompatible because of the braindead way this check is performed. For example, Akeeba FEF appears as incompatible because it doesn't publish an update stream (which it doesn't need as it's part of our software, not a standalone extension).

After you're done with that you will need to upgrade to the latest Joomla 4 beta again using Joomla Update's upload feature. It might fail and you might need to go through the administrator/components/com_admin/script.php steps manually. Now, that's a VERY complicated affair that requires deep knowledge of Joomla internals and PHP.

Then you will try to login to your site and probably face an error because one or more plugins were not J4 compatible after all and you didn't notice in advance. So you need to do some database surgery.

Finally, if the update had borked at any point, you need to go to System, Database and fix Joomla 4's schema. Unless, of course, if you cannot login in which case you need to do this manually.

In my opinion testing Joomla 4 is not realistic for anyone but hardcore developers at this point. Joomla 3.10 would need to be released first. Only then would people be able to reliably do a test upgrade to a Joomla 4 beta. Unfortunately the core developers' heads are too far up their own bum to realize that real world users are not hardcore developers and real world sites are not sterile affairs running just the Joomla core and maybe 2-3 highly vetted and ahead of the curve extensions (like our own) which are already J4-compatible. Especially when it comes to templates it's safe to say that none of them is J4-ready yet.

I am not saying any of that theoretically or philosophically. I have converted our own site to Joomla 4 on a local server. I did go through the finicky process myself and, mind you, our site only runs our own software, our own custom template and TWO (2) third party extensions. Our software was at that point fully J4 compatible. Our template wasn't — that's why I wanted the J4 dev copy of our site: to develop a new template. Of the two extensions only one was J4 compatible. The other one, written by a former core contributor, wasn't and it was not well communicated. After a couple false starts due to J3.10 being very much in alpha and the third party extension messing up the upgrade I finally got it to work. Only it didn't manage to run all post-upgrade code and I was left with a paperweight of a site until I manually applied the post-upgrade actions. It's not very clear what caused the problem. It seems to have to do with the way the post-upgrade actions were attempted to run at the end of the update, something which as of beta 5 was still something the Joomla project was working on. So I'm not really sure why they are asking people to try the upgrade now, before the actual bits and pieces are all in place. Sure, yeah, if you manage to do that it will be useful for feedback. But most people are far more likely to be scared away, not realizing that the current update process is NOT how it will work in the stable version (as was the case with 2.5 to 3.0 several years ago), essentially getting the wrong impression that upgrading to Joomla 4 will be a complicated affair.

I would advise that unless you are a developer you should wait for the Joomla 4 stable before you start trying to upgrade to 3.10 and 4.0. In fact, wait for 3-4 months after 4.0 is released so that template developers have a chance to upgrade their templates (they are notoriously slow to supporting new versions), as well as smaller extensions to decide whether they are going to support Joomla 4.0 or give up (as it happens with every new major Joomla release). There's no reason to panic. Joomla 3.10 will be supported by the Joomla project for at least two years after Joomla 4.0 is released: one year of bug fixes and one year of security fixes. We plan to do the same with our software. We were already doing that anyway :)

As for us and our sites, we are developers of the hardcore, bleeding edge subcategory. We are of course going to extreme lengths to update our own sites to Joomla 4 — even before it hit beta — to ensure that our software is ready for Joomla 4 and our own sites will be ready when J4 is released. But that's us and we are NOT the typical Joomla user.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

🇬🇷Greek: native 🇬🇧English: excellent 🇫🇷French: basic • 🕐 My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

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