Support

Admin Tools

#10225 Obviously a 'false' email address allowed to register

Posted in ‘Admin Tools for Joomla! 4 & 5’
This is a public ticket

Everybody will be able to see its contents. Do not include usernames, passwords or any other sensitive information.

Environment Information

Joomla! version
n/a
PHP version
n/a
Admin Tools version
n/a

Latest post by nicholas on Sunday, 15 January 2012 09:46 CST

Baldur2630
Mandatory information about my setup:

Have I read the related troubleshooter articles above before posting (which pages?)? Yes
Have I searched the forum before posting? Yes
Have I read the documentation before posting (which pages?)? Yes
Joomla! version: (1.5.25)
PHP version: (5.3.8)
MySQL version: (5.5.19)
Host: (optional, but it helps us help you)
Admin Tools version: (2.2.a2)

Description of my issue:
A new user has registered at MLA Music.

This e-mail contains their details:



Name: elomaMantynot elomaMantynot

E-mail: [email protected]

Username: elomaMantynot


Isn't there a setting in Admin Tools Pro that will prevent idiots like this not only being able to access my site, but also to be able to actually REGISTER.

I just can'r believe that someone with an email address like this can actually register. Am I missing a setting somewhere?

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I would be extremely cautious with the use of the word "obvious". Your human intuition tells you that this is "obviously" a fake email address. Your human intuition is a fine mixture of fuzzy logic (common sense), complex learning algorithms the science hasn't cracked yet (learning), an immense data set (experience) and probability, all housed in a 49W hyper-efficient data analysis megaprocessor called "the human brain". Scientists have been trying for decades to figure out how it works and are still many decades behind. Even a mundane task, occupying less than 10% of our all-purpose brain, playing chess, requires a warehouse-sized megacomputer, built specifically for this purpose and which also requires some human assistance to beat another human. Think about it. What you are calling "obvious" would require a warehouse-sized computer to deduct. Ergo, it's NOT obvious. For the record, that email address conforms to the RFCs defining email address formats. The name of the user consists of two words. There are no invalid characters. This user is most likely a spammer, based on our intuition, but it could be a stupid 15-year-old who thinks having this kind of crappy email and username is "133t". Are you still insisting on "obvious"?

That said, you can do a few things so that such users either don't register or never become active:
- Enable the registration activation emails (enabled by default) in Global Configuration. Moreover, enable the non-activated user cleanup in Admin Tools system plugin to get rid of the users who tried to register but never activated.
- Enable the Project Honeypot integration. It's free and easy. It will block the IPs of known spammers and hackers, a very desirable feature.
- Enable the CSRFShield and set it to Advanced. Most spambots will fall into the trap. On the downside, some search modules and other AJAX-powered extensions on the front-end of your site may stop working.
- Enable the Bad Behaviour filter in Admin Tools, but be ready to have some serious issues with your legitimate visitors. Bad Behaviour is very powerful, but it's overly eager to throw people out.

For the record, I used to have 100 such registrations per day on this site. After enabling half of these features I mentioned, they are now about 20 per day. Out of them, only one every 1 month activates the account and only 1 every 3 months manages to spam the forum before it's terminated with extreme prejudice. I think that's a good score, no?

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Baldur2630
Thank you for your reply, but there are a few problems here. I'm not trying to blame Admin Tools for this breach, I blame gmail and yahoo!

1. I don't REALLY want to enable the registration activation emails, unless I have to do. The system sends me a mail every time a use registers, so I can see the offending addresses, most of them bounce because there is no return and my mail server does check for a valid return address. The one I sent is the first in almost 2 years, but it's still disturbing. I'll enable to pre-activation email if this happens again!
2. I cannot find the non-activated user-cleanup in Admin Tools
3. I tried several times to register with Project Honeypot, but I have a BIG problem with this. (a) Their mail is Blacklisted by no-more-fun.moensted.dk and this particular blacklist keeps many spam mails out of my mailserver. (b) Their IP Address 209.124.55.53 (and other IP's in this range) have been flagged on my Forums by Stop Forum Spam and have been blocked on my firewall for persistent attempts.
4. CSRFShield is already on, but if I set it to advanced I get deluged with complaints from genuine users who can no longer download anything.
5. The Bad Behavior Filter in Admin Tools is already on and does warn me of hacking attempts.
6. I also use fail2ban and Denyhosts on the site,

I just wish they gmail, yahoo and hotmail would stop giving away free email addresses without bothering to monitor them. Having said that, in the last 12 months, I have caught VERY few spammers. using hotmail accounts, but yahoo and above all gmail flood the entire internet with spam.

I get about 10 spam mails PER MONTH that manage to get past the Blacklists on my mailserver and so far this is the FIRST idiot that has managed to actually register, because the VERY strange email address (and I don't CARE that it fits the RFC - it shouldn't), is a genuine return address. Unfortunatelt I don't have the header, sendmail on the CentOS box only RECEIVES mail, which it then forwards to me on my real email server and once sent the mail on sendmail is lost. This protects my webserver and my mailserver has every Blacklist known to man on it!

I reckon that score is as good as yours, but if one can get though whilst I'm asleep, it means that others can and this is VERY disturbing (to me anyway)

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
I understand the problem. I really do. Me, you and all the millions of website owners.

1. You can do manual filtering, as you do now, but this is wasting your time and has dubious effectiveness. You can send activation emails which is a very common practice among thousands of web sites (guess why?) and has 99.9% effectiveness against spambots. Or, you can use a CAPTCHA but be prepared of many people not registering because of it. Especially about the latter, I've many times come across CAPTCHAs (even ReCAPTCHAs) that were so damn illegible I couldn't read them even after loading the CAPTCHA 5 times. At least one company has lost my business because of this kind of stupid CAPTCHA.

2. Find the Admin Tools plugin ("System - Admin Tools" plugin) in the Plugin Manager. Click on it to edit it. (or, alternatively, just click the "Scheduling (via plugin)" button in Admin Tools). Scroll all the way to the bottom. Find the "Delete inactive users" and "Delete after this many days" options.

3. Project Honeypot fights spam, doesn't cause it. If the provider of your blacklists can't figure that much, he's a moron, a douchebag and an entirely incredulous source for blacklists. I'd personally stop using this kind of stupid blacklists.

4. I told you, it has some downsides. So, CSRFShield is a no-go for your site.

5. That's good. Even if a spammer registers, he'll have a hard time spamming you.

6. Never tried them, to be honest, as I never saw the need. I'm pretty happy with having to remove only 1-2 spam messages every few months :D

The problem is really NOT with the free email providers. Do you have any idea how easy and cheap it is to set up a low-cost domain name and send spam from it, with a validating email address? You'd be amazed. All you need is a DNS solution (Amazon Route 55, anyone?), an ADSL line and a Linux box. Don't hold a grudge against free email providers. They don't enable spamming or make it easier.

Having a crapload of blacklists on a mail server is not such a good idea. I'd personally trust infinitely more a "learning" spam filter, such as Spam Assassin, than any blacklist. Why? Blacklists are, by definition, outdated the moment you download them. Spammers download them too, you know, figure out if they're blacklisted and hop to a different email address/domain/IP address. Moreover, blacklists usually block legitimate emails. Two examples:
- A month ago I got an email for an angry client, claiming I am a fraud because I haven't sent him his invoice for 3 months. I had sent him his invoice 2 months and 17 days ago, via email, as a PDF file. His blacklist considered my email address spammy and refused to deliver the file to him.
- For the last two weeks I am receiving an email every few days from another client (I think) who's requesting a quote. Unfortunately, he doesn't send the email from the mail address they used to subscribe, doesn't mention a username and their moronic blacklist doesn't allow ANY of my emails to reach them (and I tried several sender addresses). They probably think I am ignoring them and I expect an email telling me that I have awful service and they'll never buy anything from me again because I repeatedly ignore them.
In both cases my emails were returned to me with an error message, clearly stating that my email and/or IP was blacklisted (hint: I am using Google Apps so that I can archive and search my 4Gb of emails when people email me, referring to our communication from 12-24 months ago). So, there you have it: SCREW BLACKLISTS, they're dysfunctional.

We could go on forever with these arguments, but the point is that we can not fight spam emails. We can, however, fight spam on our sites very effectively:
- Require activation emails. Spambots can not process it and it doesn't make sense from a spammer's perspective to do that. It's slow and they make money based on volume of spam delivered.
- Don't use CAPTCHAs; they're broken easily (MechTurk jobs pay off big time) and they simply annoy users.
- You should never allow unregistered users to post content. Ever.
- The web application should have CSRF protection built-in. Joomla! does a very good job at generating a token. A clever developer can make it so that his forum software rotates the token on each page load and checks it when someone is posting content. This makes it 10x harder for spammers to post spam, as they have to precede each post with a full read of your new post page, making it inefficient and cost-ineffective for them (they don't make money anymore, so they'll leave you alone). To the best of my knowledge, most forums don't offer that.
- Use mod_security2 on your Apache. It will offer flood protection. Again, the spammer will have to be very slow to spam you, therefore not making money, therefore he'll leave you alone. Likewise, a forum/comment system with flood protection works equally fine.
- Use the Bad Words filtering in Admin Tools. Amazingly, spammers seem to use the same subset of uncommon words for a period of 2-6 weeks. So, once you get spammed you have some uncommon words/phrases to feed the Bad Words filter.
- Use Project Honeypot integration. It stops a lot of lowlifes. If you read PH's website, you'll see that the method they use is very smart and very effective. Well, it works perfectly for me!
- Bad Behaviour is a big help against spambots. Spambots often use behaviour which is non-standard for web browsers, making it quite easy to stop most of them dead on their tracks.

Some spam will go through. It's not unconceivable that someone will employ flesh-and-blood humans to go through anti-spam measures. However, this is very inefficient, very rare and easy to combat once spotted.

And, no, there is no such thing as a fool-proof anti=spam method other than tracking down spammers and sending the police knocking down their doors. The more that happens, the less spam we'll see. That, and educating lusers to not fall victims of spam. That is why spam still exists and the hardest cause to combat.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

slaes
my 2 cents.

1. Personally, instead of overloading your resources with filtering of blacklists amongst other ip blocking related security (or rather obscurity) you may consider having link activation. Be smart about it. There is allot which can be done so bots cant spot activation links in email, just need to think outside the box.

2.

3. Of course there mail is gonna be blacklisted. Spammers dont like people like PH. Do you realise you can make exceptions to rules for blacklists and the likes of? If blacklists and reactive methods like Stop Forum Spam are you main solution to spam, then i would suggest you review your system. If you think outside the box you can minimalise spam or cut out completly spam, without the use of any blacklists whatsoever, not to mention gain much further resources.

4-5. Niko can address.

6. Gmail, Yahoo and AOL / Hotmail will never do that. In fact they make it even easier. For example, something everyone may not be aware off, most spammers would be. Actually, here is a spammers mail guide for you:

1. Create 1 Gmail Account

2. Create 1 AOL / hotmail Account (with no pop 3 download limits. Or even use a domain based one). Switch all spam fileters off.

3. Your gmail account [email protected] - login and forward ALL MAIL including spam to you #2 account.

4. Write a simple script or macro to generate MAX combinations of google accounts from your original name. GOOGLE & ALL OTHERS WILL CATCH AND FORWARD ALL. EG

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

etc etc etc. You catch my drift. 1 Gmail or others Account = Shitloads of spam account to use.

Above is a simple example, highly simple vs, what can and is being done ATM. These kinds of tachics, most of which i wont share publically render blacklists and ip blocking a joke.

Real spammers laugh at the prospect of time, money and resources placed into such tactics to stop them. With that mindset you will always be wasting your town time trying to stop them. For every user you stop / they can create a 1000 more. Sophisticated products out there cannot be stopped easily. Ask me how i know? I run many forums and hence believe im fairly familiar with the software and what its does. For example, xrumer released an update a few days ago, easily passes both decap and now, on my testing over the last few days, smashes recaptch. We both know who developed them.

Best advice i could give is lose the blacklist/ip block methods, they are dated, easily evaded and cost you time and $ without you even realising. But you catch so many out that way, well, that's good. The ones your catching aren't proper spammers, but rather jokers / clowns wasting your valuable time and resources. The fact of the matter is you need to be intelligent about it. If you operate some decent PR forums, the chances are you already have a shitload of spam going on, which your not even aware of, nor would it even look like spam at all. Thats what smarter spammers do. Its all about AI and making it look not like spam. I'd love to post all the trick i know and have seen, all of which would blow your mind, however i think it would be highly inappropriate.

Good luck.

slaes
@ niko - just saw your post and forgot to mention, your a pissa and had me in stickers ROFL with references to Deep Blue, AI and Garry Kasparov like scenarios. Funny man, you kill me. You need to do that more often, break up the day ;)

@ Baldur2630 - real spamers dont get ip's blocked and listed on spamlist. ive seen such sophisticated spam its impossible to tell by looking. And im not talking one post, im talkng shitloads of posts, with dozens of topics all talking to each other, making human sense, in many cases far better than actual humans. How hard do you think it is to employ such tactics add value to a forum and come back months later, making the necessary and silent mods, falling under the radar. Not very difficult my friend and such methods are the beginning.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
He he! This is the kinds of posts I write after a much=needed 12hr sleep and a ton of caffeine in my blood stream ;)

Regarding edits, you may have noticed that I've removed the ability to edit your posts since six months ago. That was the reason. In the new support system I'm baking up, I plan to include the ability to edit your post only 15 minutes after posting it and have it send a notification to subscribed users. I bet that'll be enough to deter below-the-radar spammers.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

slaes
yeah i already knew your already all over it, in many ways and lets face it, ninja board helps, its pretty good in many ways, vs at least everything else that is our there. and doesnt reek "hey my names footprint, come and get me" aka, phpbb,vb,smf and a million others. Sometimes I swear man, these things must have been developed with goal of intelligent spam promotion, whats the bet. lol - keep that mad hidden humor going, it rocks! I love reading it, its half the reason i basically read everything and i bet im not alone ;)

Baldur2630
I run two websites and two forums on my own servers. The two websites give away FREE music, the music offers Backing Tracks and guitar Tablature on a website hosted in Canada, for which you have to PAY. Over the Christmas period we had so many 'script-kiddies' and would-be hackers, trying to (a) harvest email addresses (b) credit card information (on a free site!) and (c) to steal FREE mp3 files, that our entire system was running so slow that for all intents and purposes it was down - completely unuseable.

One of the two forums is private (no-one can register, they have to write to me and ask to join the forum and I create an account for them) - NO spammers / defacers / whatever. It's for 'older' guitarists and being grumpy old men, we want to see the death penalty for spammers and hackers.

The other Forum wass offering FREE help and tips for computers and computer systems for everyone. If we come across a problem and solve it, it goes onto the Forum. We got so many idiots (and I had to spend several hours every week deleting them) that registered with the sole intent of putting advertisements for porn & pills etc, that I finally blocked new registrations altogether and now it's just for our use and our customers who get accounts when I create them unfortunately genuine users can no longer access the site, but it's their own fault for not DEMANDING stricter laws and penalties.

Over Christmas 2011, I know of quite a few websites that were trashed, leaving only a banner "Hacked by the Kingdom of Islam" or "Sharia for Europe" or "Death to all Infidels". I have backups of my site, but I REALLY don't have time to waste cleaning up after these vicious morons.

One of our customers had a BOUGHT hardware spamfilter, it isn't a big company - less that 200 users, but they were getting 20,000+ spam mails per week, the spamfilter marked them all, but the poor users had to delete them. We added the Blacklists to their GroupWise server and like me, every spam mail that gets through (a couple of HUNDRED, spread over around 200 users) gets reported to Spamcop. The threw away their "intelligent" expensive hardware filter! Like me, they agree that it's better to lose the odd genuine email (and it is VERY few indeed) than for 200 users to waste hours of time every day sifting through junk and porn and deleting it. If you implement ANY kind of spamfilter, you have the same problem, either risk losing the odd genuine email or waste hours of your time sifting the masses of porn and junk on the off-chance that there is a genuine mail in there somewhere - maybe!

I can understand Project Honeypot getting blacklisted accidentally - s**t happens, but I can't understand why their IP address is getting banned for attempted hacking. Maybe they like to practice?

We can argue about the merits and demerits of stopping spam and hacking until we go blue in the face, but until GOVERNMENTS take this seriously and start locking people up for a LONG time, the use of Forums, websites and email are in serious danger. I, like many others have vowed that the day someone manages to hack my servers and deface sites offering FREE music and FREE help, that I'll just close them all down. I really don't care. I don't need the few cents that Backing Tracks make for me, especially if I spend hours every day fighting morons.

I think we should lay this one to rest, it's costing us ALL time now.

slaes
Buldur, dont bow down mate.

Government dont care about computers and spam, they have more pressing issues (and shit, we cant entirely disagree), and although i hate spam, ive had to become a spam expert in order to learn a defense.

- Do some basics, get mod sec 2.x running with some paid real time solid rules. i recommend www.gotroot.com , combined i dont think i know of a better apache side solution, its damn good, configured correctly.

- To come under ddos is a fu%$#$g damn shame and im sorry to hear that. But for God's man, get rid of all the footprints. It'll take a while before your removed from the spammers yellow pages but at least new ones wont find you easily.

See how you go with the above, i think you'll see some pleasant results.

nicholas
Akeeba Staff
Manager
FWIW, virtually all developed countries have pretty strict laws regarding spamming and hacking. The problem is not the lack of legislation, but the difficulty in tracking down the origin of the spam/hack and the improbability that even then it can be tracked down to someone who's on a jurisdiction which allows extradition or, at the very least, punishment.

And, for the record, if anyone gives me hell that I don't reply to their emails, when it's just their blacklist/spamfilter which doesn't let my replies pass through, I'm going to be bill 200 Euros. That's my minimum consultancy fee and that's what I am expecting to be paid when I spend two hours trying to work around someone's spam filters to answer their damn email. ;)

Side note: Ever since my business email is being handled by Google Apps, I have only seen 2 spam emails landing in my inbox. That's 2 emails in over 2 years, with 200+ legitimate (and 300+ spam) emails per day. As I said, a "learning" spam filter is the best solution. And Google, oh boy, do they have data to feed their spam filter! Millions upon millions of emails and hundreds of thousands of users every day marking emails as spam or ham when the filter misfires. I don't think anyone can beat that.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

Lead Developer and Director

πŸ‡¬πŸ‡·Greek: native πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§English: excellent πŸ‡«πŸ‡·French: basic β€’ πŸ• My time zone is Europe / Athens
Please keep in mind my timezone and cultural differences when reading my replies. Thank you!

Support Information

Working hours: We are open Monday to Friday, 9am to 7pm Cyprus timezone (EET / EEST). Support is provided by the same developers writing the software, all of which live in Europe. You can still file tickets outside of our working hours, but we cannot respond to them until we're back at the office.

Support policy: We would like to kindly inform you that when using our support you have already agreed to the Support Policy which is part of our Terms of Service. Thank you for your understanding and for helping us help you!